InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "Son of a mothers lover!"

opengoal (opengoal) wrote,
@ 2008-06-10 00:31:00

Entry tags:

meta, mpreg, reading

Random Rambling about Mpreg (again)
First I have to declare interest - Mpreg is one of my kinks. At one point, I like it so much that I'll read any mpreg regardless which fandom it's in or whether I know the characters at all. And I've read them for quite a few years now but they never stop making me wonder why this genre exists.

I guess one of the big questions that keep bugging me is that, compared with incest or most other kinks, there doesn't seem to be a literary precedent for it (Wraeththu doesn't really count, does it?). As for movies,there are Junior and Enemy Mine but that's about it.

OK, maybe female pregancy would be more common? Well, everybody has a mother so that should constitute a significant part of human experience. But I can't really think of any literary or popular fiction or movies with female pregnancy as a major theme. (Getting pregnant is another matter, though)

The closest parallel to mpreg is perhaps pregnant women porn. They are a recognized subgenre of porn, and mpreg fanart really don't look that different from them. But mpreg fics isn't just sex with pregnant men. In fact, a huge part of the usual mpreg fic is about the bitching and the suffering of the pregnant guys. And in the end, motherhood invariably makes the guys love their children whether they like/accept their pregnancy at the beginning.

As a feminist, I object to the motherhood instinct myth. But despite the annoyance at these ending, I still love reading mpreg. I can't quite give a rational reason for it. But for me, the appeal is not dissimilar to the warm fuzzy feeling in seeing a man holding a baby. I melt every time I see that, although I actually don't like children and would gladly have a hysterectomy if it is safe from complications. I can't even make sense of this mpreg fetish to myself. But maybe looking back at this entry someday, I'll realise just what it is that appeals to me this much.

(Edited because motherhood instinct is not mother nature. Watching Euro 2008 in a different time zone is a serious hazard to my sanity.)

ETA: alchemia has posted a fascinating list of mainstream mpreg books and movies (among others). I better start looking for them.

ETA: Apparently Madeline on LJ had a post which mentioned the differences between mpreg fanfics and mainstream mpreg. It seems there's another book I need to add to my shopping list.

Mpreg Meta
While I'm adding links, I guess I'll just park these mpreg meta here for easy reference:

alixtii on the scacity of fpreg in femmeslash as a distinction from m/m slash
thelemic on the rarity of abortion fics
teh-no's critique on how easily the male protagonists accept their pregnancy
Djinanna answering the question of "Why Mpreg?"
schemingreader thinks slash is a way to work out the ramifications of women's gender role
savageseraph's Mpreg survey

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alchemia
2008-06-13 09:30 am UTC (link)

here via metaround up....

What is the Mother Nature myth?

I guess one of the big questions that keep bugging me is that, compared with incest or most other kinks, there doesn't seem to be a literary precedent for it (Wraeththu doesn't really count, does it?). As for movies,there are Junior and Enemy Mine but that's about it.

Sure there is! There's so many infact, i dont think i can fit them all in a reply. I think I'll have to make my own post

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	mllesatine 2008-06-13 10:34 am UTC (link)
	There's so many infact, i dont think i can fit them all in a reply. I think I'll have to make my own post Wow, I had no idea. Now I'm curious. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	alchemia 2008-06-13 09:51 pm UTC (link)
	http://alchemia.insanejournal.com/44179.html :-) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	mllesatine 2008-06-14 09:22 am UTC (link)
	Thanks for letting me know. I would have checked back anyway. ;) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	opengoal 2008-06-13 01:35 pm UTC (link)
	There's so many infact, i dont think i can fit them all in a reply. I think I'll have to make my own post Please let me know when you've written it. I'd love to read it! BTW, I didn't even know there's a metaroundup on IJ. It's really true that you learn something new every day. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	alchemia 2008-06-13 09:51 pm UTC (link)
	http://alchemia.insanejournal.com/44179.html :-) (Reply to this) (Parent)

mllesatine
2008-06-13 10:33 am UTC (link)

Now, this is interesting. I always thought that the appeal of mpreg had something to do with the concept of "things are being done to me/they aren't under my control". It usually is like that in Harry Potter (misused spell), right?

Maybe this estimation only reflects my own kinks (non-con, D/s).

I hope this discussion will find a lot of participants. I'm not an mpreg reader myself but I would like to know why other people read and write it. Also, do you think that the genre has grown a lot recently? There seem to be a lot more mpreg stories now than a few years ago.

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opengoal
2008-06-13 01:40 pm UTC (link)

I'm under the impression that most mpreg fics are indeed "things are being done to me/they aren't under my control". But then there are always those very long series where the sequels are all about the birthing parent (actually both partners usually) would happily multiply. And then there's that fic where House undergo some experimental treatment so that he can carry children.

I have this urge to conduct a statistical survey of mpreg fics but there are just so many of them and I'm not a student anymore so I wouldn't have the time to do that.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

zulu
2008-06-13 04:36 pm UTC (link)

Link me the Housefic?

I think mpreg is akin to hurt/comfort. Authors use the 'hurt' part to drive the character to be emotionally open with the other half of the pairing of their choice; I think pregnancy works just as well for that. Personally, though, the reason I wrote an epic mpreg is because BABIES ARE CUTE, so...maybe looking for a deep dark reason isn't always going to work.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

opengoal
2008-06-14 01:31 am UTC (link)

It's Scribe's The Opportunist Series. It's been a while since I last read it (via mailing list) so I can't quite remember whether the series was completed or still WIP.

the reason I wrote an epic mpreg is because BABIES ARE CUTE
That's kind of similar to some happy endings in TV/films in which the lovers get married and the man says he wants them to make enough children for a football team (which in reality would be a nightmare but in fantasyland is all joy and no pain, of course).

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	reddwarfer 2008-06-14 02:43 am UTC (link)
	Why do you think the idea of a mother's instinct is contradiction to feminism? Also, Red Dwarf has canon mpreg. Parallel Universe, David Lister jumps to a parallel dimmension and gets knocked up by the female version of himself. He gets pregnant with twins. (Reply to this) (Thread)

Maternal Instinct

opengoal
2008-06-14 03:59 am UTC (link)

Why do you think the idea of a mother's instinct is contradiction to feminism?

The lame but honest answer is that I don't have maternal instinct, and most of my friends don't.

The long (and hopefully less embarrassing) answer is:
While there are many different (and often opposing) feminist schools of thought, the mish-mash one subscribe to is that maternal instinct is a social construct and patrichy stands to benefit from the resulting self-sacrifice of mothers. Child neglect cases are one of evidences to support the idea that maternal instinct is constructed rather than inborn. Another one is the historical lack of affection for babies in medieval times (or the period before renaissance) when mothers (who could afford it) didn't raise their own babies until they were at least a few years old and the women who raised the babies would wrapped them up tight and nailed the bundle on a wall.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: Maternal Instinct reddwarfer 2008-06-14 04:01 am UTC (link)
	If you'd be interested, I could offer a counter argument that's not really counter, but more parallel to yours. I don't out and out disagree, but I do find myself a feminist but I also will claim I have maternal instinct. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	opengoal 2008-06-14 04:07 am UTC (link)
	I'm interested, of course. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: Maternal Instinct (Anonymous) 2008-06-15 09:58 pm UTC (link)
	It seems to me that you like mpreg because you have contempt for motherhood (seeing it as a sacrifice that women should not be asked to make). In my experience, most fans of mpreg have a similar attitude towards women who choose to be mothers. Neneithel@aol.com (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Maternal Instinct
(Anonymous)
2008-06-16 05:02 am UTC (link)

I think "contempt" and "seeing (something) as a sacrifice that (people) should not be asked to make" are two different things. It wouldn't be a contempt for organ donation if someone doesn't see organ donation as a sacrifice that a child should be asked to make for a sibling, for instance.

As for whether most mpreg fans have contempt for motherhood, or even whether they oppose to the idea that women are born to become mothers, I seriously hope that there are some researches on this. There have been so many conjectures about what mpreg writers and readers are like but not many data available to support any claim. There are so many students and academics in fandom. There must have been some surveys conducted on this topic?

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	snakeysnape 2008-06-14 03:14 am UTC (link)
	Greek mythology has Mpreg with both Zeus and Apollo giving birth. True, these were not your standard conceptions but you certainly can't deny it's canon. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	loqia 2008-06-16 04:32 am UTC (link)
	Norse mythology has it too; Loki gives birth at least once (to a horse, no less). Though, admittedly, he was in a female body at the time/s (he's a shapeshifter), so I'm not sure if it strictly counts... (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	opengoal 2008-06-16 05:08 am UTC (link)
	Thank you both! I guess they are good examples of how mpreg fics differ from mpreg mythology too. (Reply to this) (Parent)

syrenslure
2008-06-14 03:31 am UTC (link)

I like mpreg, but usually only in magical/supernatural fandoms. i think it makes it easier to get past the suspension of disbelief.

Also for a mainstream female version - try For Keeps. it's a Molly Ringwald movie that follows a high school senior through pregnancy and early marriage with a kid, and a lot of grouching about the pregnancy and is kind of funny. it has a similar feel to a lot of mpreg movies, but with a female pregnancy.

There was also She's having a Baby with Kevin Bacon, which I don't really remember, except that it was about her but from his point of view. I don't think it was nearly as good as the one above, which was definitely a guilty pleasure (the kind you don't admit to in public).

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	opengoal 2008-06-16 05:09 am UTC (link)
	Thanks for the recs! I hope I can get hold of them. It's not easy in non-English country. (Reply to this) (Parent)

mrs260
2008-06-14 03:50 am UTC (link)

Here from metafandom over on LJ. :0)

MPreg is an interesting topic for me. I don't, in general, like the stereotypical fannish mpreg stories that are all about the bitching and suffering. As someone who has not delved deeply into the subgenre, it has always seemed to me to be something of a revenge fantasy: make a man suffer the indignities--real, farcical, or melodramatic--that women suffer during pregnancy.

Imagine my surprise when I found myself writing a story on the subject!

It started as a basic writing exercise: listen to music and start a new story with every new piece, using the song as inspiration. Write as much as possible until the next piece comes up. And up came "Unto Us A Child Is Born" from Handel's Messiah. What I wrote actually turned... serious.

I found myself drawing from emotions I felt when I thought I might be pregnant. I'm a female-to-male transsexual. I've never wanted children; the idea of being pregnant has always been deeply distressing. It turned out I wasn't pregnant, but when I thought I might be... I found myself protective of the hypothetical child. Not planning to keep him or her, but willing to do what I could to give hir a good start, worrying that my sex-change hormones might already have hurt hir.

The possibility, in my case, was unwanted, unplanned, and the result of being assaulted. Translating what I felt to a childless, outcast man who had found a loving relationship in exile was one I valued in itself, and I think it made one of my better stories.

(For reference, my story can be found at
http://mrs260.fenfanfair.com/untous.html )

This comment probably doesn't give any insight into mpreg in general, or why most (female) fanficcers write it, but I thought I'd share anyway. :0)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2008-06-14 05:11 pm UTC (link)
	Hi Mark, Even though mpreg's not one of my kinks, I really enjoyed that. Thanks for sharing your story (and Garak's!) --Nyssa23 on LJ (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	mrs260 2008-06-14 09:37 pm UTC (link)
	I'm glad you liked it. :0) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	opengoal 2008-06-16 05:11 am UTC (link)
	Thanks for sharing such an intimate experience. And I also enjoyed your fic. Come to think of it, there are different types of mpreg fics so there must be different types of mpreg writers too, those who have experience with pregnancy and those who don't, and even some who are phobic of pregnancy (which I'd be one if I'd just finished that damn fic). (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	mrs260 2008-06-16 01:57 pm UTC (link)
	You're welcome. :0) And thanks! (Reply to this) (Parent)

here via metafandom
(Anonymous)
2008-06-14 10:24 am UTC (link)

(Hi, I'm anotherusedpage on lj).

There's quite a lot of mpreg-type stories in classical and celtic mythology, IIRC - not detailed mpreg with hormone swinging and bumps and morning sickness, but heroes springing fully formed from the foreheads of male gods, and all that jazz. It's an Epic theme, the idea that the hero's birth is completely out of the ordinary - sometimes that means a virgin birth, or somehow magically inspired (like King Arthur), but sometimes it's narratively mpreg.

Having said that, I can't think of a specific example off the top of my head.

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kimberlyfdr.livejournal.com
2008-06-14 12:14 pm UTC (link)

I saw mention of MPREG and I perked right up :) MPREG has long been a topic of fascination for me. I even wrote my senior ANTH paper on MPREG in Modern Society to compare gender role reversal. As has already been mentioned, there are an EXCEEDINGLY large number of MPREG instances in media, film, books, myths, etc. There are instances of intersexed (or wrongly sexed) men throughout history who have given birth. The fascination of male motherhood has been ongoing for centuries and the couvade is well-documented among societies. It's that whole gender roles/outside expectations idea and in fanfiction I think it's alot to do with "having what we didn't think we could" with a m/m couple able to have children without the insertion of a female component.

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	opengoal 2008-06-14 01:20 pm UTC (link)
	"MPREG in Modern Society"?! That's fascinating. Can you perhaps tell me how much mpreg fics resemble mpreg in the media, film, books and myths? For some other slash genres (e.g. first time fics), it's easy to point to certain genres of pro fics and say that they share lineage or kinship. How's the relationship between mainstream Mpreg and Mpreg fics? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

kimberlyfdr.livejournal.com
2008-06-15 12:50 am UTC (link)

Can you perhaps tell me how much mpreg fics resemble mpreg in the media, film, books and myths?

Not very closely, unfortunately. The main idealism of mpreg fics in fandom is the exclusion of women to create a family amongst male lovers. The main idealism of mpreg in media/film/books/myths is to upset the preconceived gender roles to "lessen" masculinity through motherhood. To take it into another level, the media (and even fandom) representation of mpreg also has a level of threat towards the feminine identity as it removes the need to have a woman. If men can become mothers, give birth, etc...where does the feminine identity enter in? There have been quite a number of feminist concentrations on the theory.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	opengoal 2008-06-16 05:06 am UTC (link)
	That's interesting. I can see how authors would want to create a family (with children) for the couple without adding a woman who may complicate things. It's interesting, though, that adoption fics are much rarer than mpreg. I wonder whether this is a reflection of fandom's view towards adoption instead of blood family. (Reply to this) (Parent)

Personal veiw on Mothering instinct and Mpreg. (warning to this post. some graphic refrences)
(Anonymous)
2008-06-16 02:54 pm UTC (link)

I hope this makes sence. It involves a few deeply personal things for me. Better out than in as they say. Disagree at will, but please be nice about it.

I beleive that there is a certain truth to the phrase 'Mothering instinct'. Even if that instinct is consideribly incressed by socal preconceptions. I wouldn't say all people have it. But some definetly do. Also I feel it is triggered by cirtain changes in the body. I have 2 diferent points in my experience to draw upon.

1) The less personal one. Dogs. I grew up in the middle of no where with an ever changing number of animals around me. I have helped with the birth of half of them. 2 of our dogs had puppies.

The first one, Dinky. As soon as she had given birth she looked after the puppies. Cleaning them, getting them to feed, keeping an eye on them, etc. She was a first time mum, Had no exemple to base this upon. This has be instictive behaviour.

The second one, Addis. When she gave birth she couldn't get away from the pupies fast enough. She ate half the placenta, but that was as far as intstict took it. We had to hold her down to get the first puppy to suckle.
In that momnet the bitch stoped fighting us and was happy to feed her pups. She was never atentive to them thouogh in the way the previous bitch had been.

To me this demonstrats that there is a natral maternal instinct. It is just stronger in some than others.

2) The personal veiw. I am a yougest child. I have never been interested in babies or children. When I was young I wanted nothing to do with dolls or other toys that are smaller versions of the tipical female trappings. Execpt for a toy hover, that I used that to blow things up.(another story) As I mentioned, I have been around animals. But in my opinion witnessing birth is not somthing that whould incourage it. I have seen situations where both mother an young die. Ask me a few years ago if I had any mothering instinct and I would of laughed in your face.

Then some things happened and I had to make a descion. It was one of the hardest choices in my life. I'm not going into it now. It's not that hard to figure out. But my veiw has changed drasticly. I now beleive that there is a chance that I will have a child. I also find I have an erg to protect the young of very close family. I do addmit that 99.9% of kids can go to hell still. But I have a need inside me. Odd as that may sound. I know many people woould say a large part of that is greif. Maybe, I don't know.

The other thing I would say is that I do beleave that some men have 'perternal instict'. Again this can be greatly inhansed by social conditioning, But it is there. But the male phychi seems to deal better in absolutes. (purly based on my exp) With out the object to focus on it isn't stimutated. This is why a mother will have a more extream reaction to pregncy gone wrong. I a sence the baby dosen't become a reality in there mind untill it's visable.

Mpreg-My thoughts on it.

I find Mpreg to be interesting. It's mostly in m/m relationships and I love to see the interaction of people involved. I do find the play on the tipical female and male relationships interesting. But this is the reason I read allot of m/m. My own relationship has never seemed to conform to socities preconceptions. I find oftenlly that a well writtem m/m relationship is more comparible to what I have than het stuff. M/m forces you to see how the two inderviduals cope, rather than precasting there reactions.

Anyway. I'm waffling on :/

Gen

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